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Voting [message #14639] Mon, 27 November 2017 11:46 Go to next message
Tom Upchurch is currently offline  Tom Upchurch
Messages: 55
Registered: June 2017
Member
So far we have had 8 people vote out of 27 voters. I got my ballot at
11:21 AM Saturday and I hope everyone else did as well. Let me know ASAP
if you expected a ballot and didn't get one.
_______________________________________________
Discuss mailing list
Re: Voting [message #14640 is a reply to message #14639] Mon, 27 November 2017 11:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cord Slatton is currently offline  Cord Slatton
Messages: 321
Registered: January 2013
Senior Member
There were so many messages from EMS mine must be lost in the noise, can
you please resend the ballot to me?

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 11:46 AM, tom upchurch
wrote:

> So far we have had 8 people vote out of 27 voters. I got my ballot at
> 11:21 AM Saturday and I hope everyone else did as well. Let me know ASAP if
> you expected a ballot and didn't get one.
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
Re: Voting [message #14642 is a reply to message #14639] Mon, 27 November 2017 15:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tom Conlin is currently offline  Tom Conlin
Messages: 122
Registered: September 2012
Senior Member
No ballot received by me. (Shocked! I tell you)

Am paid thru April (from last March when EMS moved spaces)
redid waiver weeks ago, had people watch me deposit it in EMS box.


... nice weather eh? EMAIL HIDDEN

On 11/27/2017 11:46 AM, tom upchurch wrote:
> So far we have had 8 people vote out of 27 voters.  I got my ballot at
> 11:21 AM Saturday and I hope everyone else did as well. Let me know ASAP
> if you expected a ballot and didn't get one.
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
Re: Voting [message #14643 is a reply to message #14642] Mon, 27 November 2017 15:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rick Osgood is currently offline  Rick Osgood
Messages: 1104
Registered: October 2011
Senior Member
The ballots come from EMAIL HIDDEN so make sure it didn't end up in
spam or something.

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 3:39 PM, tomc wrote:

> No ballot received by me. (Shocked! I tell you)
>
> Am paid thru April (from last March when EMS moved spaces)
> redid waiver weeks ago, had people watch me deposit it in EMS box.
>
>
> ... nice weather eh? EMAIL HIDDEN
>
>
> On 11/27/2017 11:46 AM, tom upchurch wrote:
>
>> So far we have had 8 people vote out of 27 voters. I got my ballot at
>> 11:21 AM Saturday and I hope everyone else did as well. Let me know ASAP if
>> you expected a ballot and didn't get one.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
...

Re: Voting [message #14644 is a reply to message #14643] Mon, 27 November 2017 16:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tom Conlin is currently offline  Tom Conlin
Messages: 122
Registered: September 2012
Senior Member
Great tip Rick

Thanks to the altruistic impulses of another on this list I have been a
hard core email user for coming up on 28 years now, so when I noticed
EMS activity a couple of days ago reviewing my .procmailrc filters and
destinations was one of the first things I did.


... nice weather eh? EMAIL HIDDEN

On 11/27/2017 03:50 PM, Rick Osgood wrote:
> The ballots come from EMAIL HIDDEN so make sure it didn't end up in
> spam or something.
>
> On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 3:39 PM, tomc wrote:
>
>> No ballot received by me. (Shocked! I tell you)
>>
>> Am paid thru April (from last March when EMS moved spaces)
>> redid waiver weeks ago, had people watch me deposit it in EMS box.
>>
>>
>> ... nice weather eh? EMAIL HIDDEN
>>
>>
>> On 11/27/2017 11:46 AM, tom upchurch wrote:
>>
>>> So far we have had 8 people vote out of 27 voters. I got my ballot at
>>> 11:21 AM S
...

Re: Voting [message #14645 is a reply to message #14644] Mon, 27 November 2017 16:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cord Slatton is currently offline  Cord Slatton
Messages: 321
Registered: January 2013
Senior Member
I have no mail from EMAIL HIDDEN ever, I could have deleted it as
spam but apparently I don't get to vote :( this process sucks.

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 4:08 PM, tomc wrote:

> Great tip Rick
>
> Thanks to the altruistic impulses of another on this list I have been a
> hard core email user for coming up on 28 years now, so when I noticed EMS
> activity a couple of days ago reviewing my .procmailrc filters and
> destinations was one of the first things I did.
>
>
> ... nice weather eh? EMAIL HIDDEN
>
> On 11/27/2017 03:50 PM, Rick Osgood wrote:
>
>> The ballots come from EMAIL HIDDEN so make sure it didn't end up
>> in
>> spam or something.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 3:39 PM, tomc wrote:
>>
>> No ballot received by me. (Shocked! I tell you)
>>>
>>> Am paid thru April (from last March when EMS moved spaces)
>>> redid waiver weeks ago, had people watch me deposit it in
...

Re: Voting [message #14646 is a reply to message #14645] Mon, 27 November 2017 17:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Paris John Sinclair is currently offline  Paris John Sinclair
Messages: 81
Registered: May 2016
Member
I just wanted to mention that in the past I've offered to donate a
complete software system so that we can run all of these types of
functions in-house.

People's personal dislike for me has caused them to direct Eugene
Makerspace to reject the tens of thousands of dollars worth of custom
software I've offered to donate.

I'd like to remind people that do care about good governance that if
we were making decisions based on what helps us achieve our mission as
a Public Benefit Corporation, we wouldn't have a lot of these
problems. We have these problems because we've allowed people to
redirect our resources in order to run it like a private club! That's
not right, and they're not even doing a good job at it.

We should be running our own elections, it is absurd to be outsourcing
it. There is no __REASON__ to outsource it that has to do with our
mission; it is only outsourced out of somebody's personal preference!

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 4:43 PM, Cord Slatton wrote:
> I have no mail from EMAIL HIDDEN ever
...

Re: Voting [message #14647 is a reply to message #14646] Mon, 27 November 2017 18:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeffrey Garman is currently offline  Jeffrey Garman
Messages: 145
Registered: December 2015
Senior Member
I feel quite certain, beyond any reasonable doubt, that the issues EMS is
having would 'not' be solved by your vapor ware. I would also like to point
out Paris, that I don't think anyone actually dislikes you. Don't be so
hard on yourself. Everyone I know who has met you in person, myself
included, finds you quite pleasant. Your a nice guy. Don't you think?

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 5:31 PM, Paris John Sinclair
wrote:

> I just wanted to mention that in the past I've offered to donate a
> complete software system so that we can run all of these types of
> functions in-house.
>
> People's personal dislike for me has caused them to direct Eugene
> Makerspace to reject the tens of thousands of dollars worth of custom
> software I've offered to donate.
>
> I'd like to remind people that do care about good governance that if
> we were making decisions based on what helps us achieve our mission as
> a Public Benefit Corporation, we wouldn't have a lot of these
> pr
...

Re: Voting [message #14648 is a reply to message #14647] Mon, 27 November 2017 19:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Paris John Sinclair is currently offline  Paris John Sinclair
Messages: 81
Registered: May 2016
Member
Why are you using a word like "vaporware" to bully me? That is just a
pejorative that doesn't accurately describe the situation.

It isn't written yet because the donation hasn't been accepted. That
is not a failing of the donation!

Customized software gets its value from being written narrowly and
specifically for the needs of the organization. That isn't something
that somebody writes in advance, or invests the time to build before
the project is even accepted. That would be absurd.

It is not a real complaint.

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 6:39 PM, Jeffrey Garman wrote:
> I feel quite certain, beyond any reasonable doubt, that the issues EMS is
> having would 'not' be solved by your vapor ware. I would also like to point
> out Paris, that I don't think anyone actually dislikes you. Don't be so hard
> on yourself. Everyone I know who has met you in person, myself included,
> finds you quite pleasant. Your a nice guy. Don't you think?
>
> On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 5:31 PM,
...

Re: Voting [message #14649 is a reply to message #14648] Mon, 27 November 2017 19:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeffrey Garman is currently offline  Jeffrey Garman
Messages: 145
Registered: December 2015
Senior Member
Your correct. It is not a real complaint. I am glad you can see that.

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 7:24 PM, Paris John Sinclair
wrote:

> Why are you using a word like "vaporware" to bully me? That is just a
> pejorative that doesn't accurately describe the situation.
>
> It isn't written yet because the donation hasn't been accepted. That
> is not a failing of the donation!
>
> Customized software gets its value from being written narrowly and
> specifically for the needs of the organization. That isn't something
> that somebody writes in advance, or invests the time to build before
> the project is even accepted. That would be absurd.
>
> It is not a real complaint.
>
> On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 6:39 PM, Jeffrey Garman
> wrote:
>> I feel quite certain, beyond any reasonable doubt, that the issues EMS is
>> having would 'not' be solved by your vapor ware. I would also like to
> point
>> out Paris, that I don't think
...

Re: Voting [message #14650 is a reply to message #14649] Mon, 27 November 2017 19:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Paris John Sinclair is currently offline  Paris John Sinclair
Messages: 81
Registered: May 2016
Member
Then what is it?

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 7:27 PM, Jeffrey Garman wrote:
> Your correct. It is not a real complaint. I am glad you can see that.
>
> On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 7:24 PM, Paris John Sinclair
> wrote:
>>
>> Why are you using a word like "vaporware" to bully me? That is just a
>> pejorative that doesn't accurately describe the situation.
>>
>> It isn't written yet because the donation hasn't been accepted. That
>> is not a failing of the donation!
>>
>> Customized software gets its value from being written narrowly and
>> specifically for the needs of the organization. That isn't something
>> that somebody writes in advance, or invests the time to build before
>> the project is even accepted. That would be absurd.
>>
>> It is not a real complaint.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 6:39 PM, Jeffrey Garman
>> wrote:
>>> I feel quite certain, beyond any rea
...

Re: Voting [message #14651 is a reply to message #14650] Mon, 27 November 2017 19:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Weston Turner is currently offline  Weston Turner
Messages: 124
Registered: June 2012
Senior Member
K kids , cool it.

Weston

On Nov 27, 2017 7:30 PM, "Paris John Sinclair"
wrote:

> Then what is it?
>
> On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 7:27 PM, Jeffrey Garman
> wrote:
>> Your correct. It is not a real complaint. I am glad you can see that.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 7:24 PM, Paris John Sinclair EMAIL HIDDEN>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Why are you using a word like "vaporware" to bully me? That is just a
>>> pejorative that doesn't accurately describe the situation.
>>>
>>> It isn't written yet because the donation hasn't been accepted. That
>>> is not a failing of the donation!
>>>
>>> Customized software gets its value from being written narrowly and
>>> specifically for the needs of the organization. That isn't something
>>> that somebody writes in advance, or invests the time to build before
>>> the project is even accepted. That would b
...

Re: Voting [message #14652 is a reply to message #14651] Mon, 27 November 2017 19:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Paris John Sinclair is currently offline  Paris John Sinclair
Messages: 81
Registered: May 2016
Member
Weston, I don't really feel that that is helpful language.

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 7:32 PM, Weston Turner wrote:
> K kids , cool it.
>
> Weston
>
> On Nov 27, 2017 7:30 PM, "Paris John Sinclair"
> wrote:
>>
>> Then what is it?
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 7:27 PM, Jeffrey Garman
>> wrote:
>>> Your correct. It is not a real complaint. I am glad you can see that.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 7:24 PM, Paris John Sinclair
>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Why are you using a word like "vaporware" to bully me? That is just a
>>>> pejorative that doesn't accurately describe the situation.
>>>>
>>>> It isn't written yet because the donation hasn't been accepted. That
>>>> is not a failing of the donation!
>>>>
>>>> Customized software gets its value from being written narrowly and
>
...

Re: Voting [message #14653 is a reply to message #14651] Mon, 27 November 2017 19:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tom Conlin is currently offline  Tom Conlin
Messages: 122
Registered: September 2012
Senior Member
don't make me pull this car over ...

I suggest we all go find our silliest hats and wear them for a while,
just till the temptation to take ours selves too seriously has passed.

Works for me and I am abundantly clear on the fact none of us will get
out of this alive.

... nice weather eh? EMAIL HIDDEN

On 11/27/2017 07:32 PM, Weston Turner wrote:
> K kids , cool it.
>
> Weston
>
> On Nov 27, 2017 7:30 PM, "Paris John Sinclair"
> wrote:
>
>> Then what is it?
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 7:27 PM, Jeffrey Garman
>> wrote:
>>> Your correct. It is not a real complaint. I am glad you can see that.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 7:24 PM, Paris John Sinclair > EMAIL HIDDEN>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Why are you using a word like "vaporware" to bully me? That is just a
>>>> pejorative that doesn't accurately describe the situation.
>&g
...

Re: Voting [message #14654 is a reply to message #14653] Mon, 27 November 2017 19:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Paris John Sinclair is currently offline  Paris John Sinclair
Messages: 81
Registered: May 2016
Member
I don't agree we have a duty to be silly, I believe we have a duty to
the mission of Eugene Makerspace, and the organization is facing very
real problems, and having a very real and difficult time being
positive and accepting enough of people and people's contributions to
attract new members and even to survive.

We need serious solutions, in good faith, to the problems and
roadblocks on the course of our mission. People that want to be silly
don't have to participate in the serious parts if they don't want to!
And if they want to participate in a silly way, they shouldn't insist
that every be silly.

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 7:40 PM, tomc wrote:
>
> don't make me pull this car over ...
>
> I suggest we all go find our silliest hats and wear them for a while,
> just till the temptation to take ours selves too seriously has passed.
>
> Works for me and I am abundantly clear on the fact none of us will get out
> of this alive.
>
> ... nice weather eh? EMAIL H
...

Re: Voting [message #14655 is a reply to message #14653] Mon, 27 November 2017 19:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeffrey Garman is currently offline  Jeffrey Garman
Messages: 145
Registered: December 2015
Senior Member
Why are you saying I wont get out "ALIVE" Tom. This is highly disturbing
language. I don't think making references to violence is appropriate and
frankly it borders on harassment or even TERRORISM!



On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 7:40 PM, tomc wrote:

>
> don't make me pull this car over ...
>
> I suggest we all go find our silliest hats and wear them for a while,
> just till the temptation to take ours selves too seriously has passed.
>
> Works for me and I am abundantly clear on the fact none of us will get out
> of this alive.
>
> ... nice weather eh? EMAIL HIDDEN
>
> On 11/27/2017 07:32 PM, Weston Turner wrote:
>
>> K kids , cool it.
>>
>> Weston
>>
>> On Nov 27, 2017 7:30 PM, "Paris John Sinclair"
>> wrote:
>>
>> Then what is it?
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 7:27 PM, Jeffrey Garman
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Your corr
...

Re: Voting [message #14656 is a reply to message #14655] Tue, 28 November 2017 07:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AdnatEdnil is currently offline  AdnatEdnil
Messages: 115
Registered: July 2016
Location: Eugene
Senior Member

This too shall pass. Like a kidney stone, it will pass. For my own mental
well-being I have stayed out of this discussion.

On Nov 27, 2017 7:48 PM, "Jeffrey Garman" wrote:

> Why are you saying I wont get out "ALIVE" Tom. This is highly disturbing
> language. I don't think making references to violence is appropriate and
> frankly it borders on harassment or even TERRORISM!
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 7:40 PM, tomc wrote:
>
>>
>> don't make me pull this car over ...
>>
>> I suggest we all go find our silliest hats and wear them for a while,
>> just till the temptation to take ours selves too seriously has passed.
>>
>> Works for me and I am abundantly clear on the fact none of us will get
>> out of this alive.
>>
>> ... nice weather eh? EMAIL HIDDEN
>>
>> On 11/27/2017 07:32 PM, Weston Turner wrote:
>>
>>> K kids , cool it.
>>>
...

Re: Voting [message #14657 is a reply to message #14656] Tue, 28 November 2017 08:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cord Slatton is currently offline  Cord Slatton
Messages: 321
Registered: January 2013
Senior Member
WOW! This type of publically facing BS that is constant within EMS is why I
am withdrawing myself from the election and cancelling my membership
effective immediately. Apparently, as demonstrated repeatedly, the
organization seems like it is never gonna change and everyone would rather
have it out on a public forum than make stuff and be kind to each other and
try and actually solve these long-term problems.

Everyone needs to understand that this BS has a huge effect on the EMS
image and personally on the people who receive these crazy email chains. I
am SOOOO tired of waking up to childish insanely long threads of people
being actively mean and rude to each other.

I have tried to help many times and ways with EMS' problems and was
planning on trying to help more in the coming year despite being busy and
having to take that time from other important things like family and
business to do so. At this point I cannot justify trying to help to my own
detriment an organization that is constantly trying to self-de
...

Re: Voting [message #14659 is a reply to message #14657] Tue, 28 November 2017 09:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bruce Cooley is currently offline  Bruce Cooley
Messages: 10
Registered: February 2013
Junior Member
I second that motion.

I've quietly observed EMS through this list for years. I suggested a few months back that these acrid discussions be taken offline somewhere. One wonders why they are still going strong. You don't keep your garbage can with rotting fish bones in the middle of your living room. Imagine if you were trying to shop for a new i-Whatever in your local Apple store, and the clerks and managers were right out there in the showroom arguing with each other. That simply doesn't happen. Customers would leave. They have back rooms and board rooms and private offices for containing caustic communication.

I do acknowledge the many civil and constructive communications that I've seen on this list, and I saved a few recent ones that were discussing grid-tied solar setups. But without a moderator to filter out unpleasant topics and messages, the overall effect is very unplasant and reflects badly on the EMS experience. A Maker Space is a nice concept, but this list is enough to turn me away
...

Re: Voting [message #14664 is a reply to message #14659] Tue, 28 November 2017 10:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Clif is currently offline  Clif
Messages: 907
Registered: March 2012
Senior Member
Yes this is the reason we can't keep members, and we all have tried to
raise consciousness many times about it, but unfortunately  I see the
steady stream of unsubscribes from discuss.

It's too bad that a few people can influence the tone of the list which
causes a negative perception of the dynamics of the space, even though
the vibe of the space is actually more up beat than that. Voting for
folks that can handle themselves on email would be a step in the right
direction.

    Clif



On 11/28/2017 09:18 AM, Bruce Cooley wrote:
> I second that motion.
> I've quietly observed EMS through this list for years.  I suggested a
> few months back that these acrid discussions be taken offline
> somewhere.  One wonders why they are still going strong.  You don't
> keep your garbage can with rotting fish bones in the middle of your
> living room. Imagine if you were trying to shop for a new i-Whatever
> in your local Apple store, and the clerks and managers were right o
...

Re: Voting [message #14665 is a reply to message #14664] Tue, 28 November 2017 10:32 Go to previous message
Paris John Sinclair is currently offline  Paris John Sinclair
Messages: 81
Registered: May 2016
Member
These really are the dynamics that people say they experience in the
space, too. This really is what is happening, it isn't a false
impression.

On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 10:29 AM, Mr. Clif wrote:
> Yes this is the reason we can't keep members, and we all have tried to raise
> consciousness many times about it, but unfortunately I see the steady
> stream of unsubscribes from discuss.
>
> It's too bad that a few people can influence the tone of the list which
> causes a negative perception of the dynamics of the space, even though the
> vibe of the space is actually more up beat than that. Voting for folks that
> can handle themselves on email would be a step in the right direction.
>
> Clif
>
>
>
>
> On 11/28/2017 09:18 AM, Bruce Cooley wrote:
>
> I second that motion.
>
> I've quietly observed EMS through this list for years. I suggested a few
> months back that these acrid discussions be taken offline somewhere. One
>
...

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